Race, Conservatism, and the GOP: An Interview with Joseph C. Phillips
After Joseph C. Phillips’ recent lecture at Wabash College , I got the opportunity to interview him about his views on race, politics, and problems with the Republicans. Even though I went to the lecture, talking to him gave me a deeper insight on his life and views. The following is an excerpt of our exchange.
WCU: What’s your insight on the different ideas of “color” and “race”?
JCP: Color is real. There’s the human race. People talk about being “color-blind.” That’s not something I look forward to or advocate. I don’t want to be invisible. I’m not asking to be invisible. You know, I have dark skin. My wife has red hair and freckles. To pretend she doesn’t, to pretend she doesn’t have a lighter complexion than I have is to ignore an essential part of her. The thing with race is when you begin to put value on that color or complexion…when certain complexion or color is of greater value or worth than another, that is a problem. What I talk about and what I’d like to see is a world, certainly a nation, where we can recognize there are differences among people but as far as government goes, we are treated equally and that our rights to life, liberty, and private property are protected with equal vigor.
WCU: What’s your take on affirmative action?
JCP: I support affirmative action but I oppose racial preferences. The problem with our debate when it comes to affirmative action is that people are not clear, sometimes purposely so, as to what they’re talking about. Racial preferences are when someone’s color is given value over someone else’s. My understanding is that some affirmative action programs are of value and worth. In my conversations with Ward Connerly (who visited Wabash in fall of 2007), I think we’re on the same page in that we support various affirmative action programs that have started to treat people fairly without regard to race. But in many cases it’s been turned on its head so that now we must treat people with regard to race. That’s what racial preferences are. Texas A&M is a good example of affirmative action at work without regard to racial preferences….They looked around and saw they weren’t attracting enough minority students to campus and they asked “Why?” They found that a lot of the students that were accepted were black students who were not choosing to attend. The students said they thought the college was a dead town…no night life, no cultural activities. So they reached out to their black alumni association and said “Well, listen. Can you speak to the kids and let them know what’s going on in the school for them?” They also moved their recruitment stations. They asked themselves what schools they had been recruiting at. They loosened purse strings of financial aid. They began to treat some of the academically gifted students as they treated their athletically gifted students. Just like at Berkeley…the San Francisco Chronicle reported that one of the reasons black students weren’t going there was that Berkeley is an elite school…so the black students getting in there had their choice of a number of schools to go to; a number of other elite schools who were offering them more money. Berkeley was being cheap! So they said “We’re going to entice you to come.” So they did all these things and they were able to increase their enrolment. Black students being accepted were deciding to go and they weren’t using racial preferences! Other schools in Texas used racial preferences and weren’t able to get the same results. So that’s the long answer to your question.
WCU: You mentioned in your talk that the events of 9/11 greatly impacted you and made you start being politically active. Were there ever other big contributors that got you started?
JCP: No, I can’t point to anything else. From what I began to write after 9/11 came Newsweek and I became a regular on NPR. I also started getting requests for my column to be in newspapers and on the web. People began to post things on their websites and I thought “How did this get on there?” People started emailing me. Then I also had contact with people who I didn’t know who were very outraged by some of the things I said. Then I was contacted by the Republican National Committee and received a phone call from the Bush/Cheney campaign asking if I’d like to be a part of it and I was like “Wow, sure!” At that time I was still developing, trying to understand exactly what it is that I believed. A lot of us think we know but we don’t give a lot of thought to it. Probably some of you young people who are involved in politics might but it’s so on the surface. “Oh I’m this.” Well then you start digging deeper. Where did this idea come from? What is that grounded in? Where do you chase the genealogy of these ideas? I was still going through that process and before I even thought about it I was out on the campaign trail stumping for the President….It was an eye-opening experience. I traveled, met people I liked, but I maybe jumped the gun a bit. I would have much rather been out there being really clear [on what I believe]. I’m more clear now and it puts me in a better position to be critical of the Republican Party. One thing I’m clearer about now is that Republican is a party affiliation…it’s not a philosophical belief.
WCU: That provides a good segue, because here at The Phoenix we try to be more about conservative ideas rather than a political entity. However, there’s a struggle with conservatism as whole because so many conservatives identify with the Republican Party…but there’s such a diverse group of conservatives within the Republican Party. So what do you see as the biggest problem for the Republican Party or conservatives as a whole?
JCP: There are a lot of problems. The first thing that comes to mind is credibility. Republicans always talk about tax cuts and being fiscally conservative. I think we saw eight years of big-government conservatism. We can now relegate that to the dustbin of history. So that’s put the Republican Party in a position where voters question their credibility. It’s very difficult to have credibility on fiscal matters when you’re spending money like it’s going out of style. Republicans were really seen as “Democrat-Lite.” That to me is a serious problem especially as a conservative. I’m sure it’s a problem for moderates. This is one of my complaints with the Republican Party. These are issues conservatives have talked about for years that we’ve let go of. I’m not politically astute enough to know the “hows” or “whys” of how that is. Healthcare is a perfect example of that. It really irritated me that there’s been this mantra of “Well you guys just want this status quo. You don’t want to change.” That’s not true. That’s simply not true. Conservatives have been talking about healthcare reform for a really long time. But for some reason we were not able through our party affiliation, the Republican Party, to take this issue and make it a Republican issue. The same thing is true for the environment…..I don’t want clean water? Are you crazy? Of course I want clean water. I don’t want clean air? I breathe the same air as you do- of course I want clean air! For whatever reason we have not been able to say “These are our issues” and run with them. We’ve been outflanked on race, education, healthcare and environment, so then our response is to talk about tax cuts. Wait…what?! That’s why I’m frustrated. I’m very frustrated with the direction of this party. I don’t know where the chance is for the Republican Party…I don’t know who is on our bench. I think if Sarah Palin is our bench then that means we have a weak bench. Why would we get in the position of running another 70-year old war veteran when it was clear that people wanted something new? They wanted new, bigger, someone with new ideas (even though we’ve seen it’s the same old ideas). Obama didn’t have to run away with this election. Republicans didn’t put up a fight. Mitt Romney would have run a better campaign but I don’t think he’s the future of the campaign either. You look around and I don’t see where the bench is.
WCU: Is there anyone who has caught your eye? Like our own Mitch Daniels? Rick Santorum? Mike Huckabee?
JCP: I’m very cynical right now. There are a lot of people I don’t know much about that people are talking about. Keep in mind I’m offering these opinions with the knowledge that I may not have all the information. A lot of it has a lot to do with politics in …how people rise through the ranks. We have people who are career politicians…they’ve been there forever. I think it’s a problem with Republican and Democratic districts. The problem is that there’s no new blood. Even when there is, once the new blood gets there, they’ve already been corrupted having spent years and years working their way up in the system by compromising everything. I may wake up tomorrow and feel differently, but that’s where I’m at right now. A lot of the names tossed around are people who have been around forever anyway.
WCU: What’s your definition of conservatism?
JCP: I have a very general definition. A belief in the founding principles, free-market capitalism, limited government, strong faith in American exceptionalism in foreign policy. I think you’ll find some conservative camps that emphasize some of those a bit more than others, but they seem to be pretty universal.
WCU: So how would you describe yourself? Social- Paleo- Fiscal? Since people like to put labels on it, how would you describe yourself?
JCP: I’m a conservative. Plain and simple. I believe in limited (although not as limited as libertarians) but vigorous government whose job is to secure people’s right to life, liberty, and property. I’m also a Christian. I believe our rights come from God. I believe there’s one Truth that’s true for all people for all times. I’m not a multi-culturalist. I don’t think there’s some truth for people over here and some truth for people over there. So I’m a conservative. And I believe in American exceptionalism. This country is the only superpower not because we got lucky or because of serendipity but because of our principles. And when we do it right, we raise exceptional people who can lead…and who ought to lead. That sounds arrogant, but listen, when you’re right, you’re right. So we need to lead from that position. Other countries don’t like it, but if you do what we do and adopt these principles, you might be exceptional too. I’m not making us into a utopia, but when you compare us with other countries throughout history, we’ve been pretty damn good.
WCU: Are race relations better now than when you first started your career? People say with the election of Obama things should be better, but we’re continually seeing things turned into racism.
JCP: Well some people want to make it into race. The “gate-keepers”, those with a vested interest in keeping things about race, are still trying to. But look, we just elected our first black president. Anyone trying to claim things haven’t changed in makes themselves out to sound silly. Obama was elected because white people voted for him and wanted him to be president. Some people that didn’t vote for him didn’t because he was black much in the same way that many black people (and some white people) voted for him just because he was black. The majority of people who didn’t vote for him probably didn’t vote for him because they disagree with him on key issues. Not the least of which is his positions on abortion, homosexual marriage, expanse of the government state, intervention into healthcare, and a sense that he would be weak on foreign policy. But those aren’t based on race. Most people had a substantive problem with where he was on the issues…after all, that’s what we do in an election.
Race issues are much better overall after this election. When people want to talk about Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, people are really reaching. They’re now for the most part out of business…at least for the next three years.
The other thing I was going to say is that you have to be careful when you talk about eliminating racism. A perfect racial society is not necessary for this country to be successful and to work and for black people to find success. There’s an idea that every vestige of racism must be rooted out and destroyed before black people can find success. I don’t believe that’s true. And I’m going to digress again…When you look at what was done here, it’s remarkable. Here in , Barack Obama, a lower middle class black boy with an African immigrant father and white mother rose up to be the most powerful man in the world. It’s funny that people like to talk about all the flaws in but when you look around the world, this hasn’t happened in , it hasn’t been done in , it hasn’t been done in , it hasn’t been done in it hasn’t been done anywhere but here. So to those critics I would tell them to sit down and shut up.
WCU: So on a lighter note, how about a few fun questions?
JCP: Sure.
WCU: What’s your favorite food to cook?
JCP: Soup.
WCU: What was your favorite role to play when acting?
JCP: I loved Justice Ward on General Hospital . I loved that character. But I also liked Morgan Douglas because I got to be kind of a bad guy and I worked with Craig T. Nelson so that’s not bad. But the most fun was when I played “The Man” with the CIA on Las Vegas . I got to work with James Caan. I was like “I’m working with James Caan!”
WCU: That’s a great way to end it! Thanks!
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